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	<title>Comments on: oDesk: Developers for Developers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review</link>
	<description>Making the web work for you</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:46:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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	<image><title>Foliovision</title><url>http://foliovision.com/site/wp-content/themes/foliovision/images/foliovision-logo-380.gif</url><link>http://foliovision.com</link><width>240</width><height>66</height><description>Making the web work for you</description></image>	<item>
		<title>By: How to Make Money on oDesk: Getting Started as a Freelance Writer</title>
		<link>http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/comment-page-1#comment-22824</link>
		<dc:creator>How to Make Money on oDesk: Getting Started as a Freelance Writer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/#comment-22824</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve had a lot of good luck on oDesk.  In fact, I&#039;ve been both the buyer and the provider.  Recently wrote an oDesk eBook about how to get started in the oDesk marketplace--once you get started, its full of awesome opportunities!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had a lot of good luck on oDesk.  In fact, I&#8217;ve been both the buyer and the provider.  Recently wrote an oDesk eBook about how to get started in the oDesk marketplace&#8211;once you get started, its full of awesome opportunities!</p>
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		<title>By: Shemp</title>
		<link>http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/comment-page-1#comment-22747</link>
		<dc:creator>Shemp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 18:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/#comment-22747</guid>
		<description>Thanks Guys, 
Thats what Im trying to get (local programmer) but putting ads on Craigslist hasnt been successful for me as nobody reads my exact job requirements and just sends me a bunch of junk info. Im located in Orange County, CA... Im basically just trying to get my 1/2 built search engine updated enough to get show for getting some funding. Had issues with old programmer. Need Zend/Ajax programmer if anyone has any advice it is much appreciated.
Shemp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Guys,<br />
Thats what Im trying to get (local programmer) but putting ads on Craigslist hasnt been successful for me as nobody reads my exact job requirements and just sends me a bunch of junk info. Im located in Orange County, CA&#8230; Im basically just trying to get my 1/2 built search engine updated enough to get show for getting some funding. Had issues with old programmer. Need Zend/Ajax programmer if anyone has any advice it is much appreciated.<br />
Shemp</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/comment-page-1#comment-22746</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/#comment-22746</guid>
		<description>I agree that making use of remote resources in this case is difficult, but I don&#039;t agree that it is folly. Just as there is risk there is also opportunity in walking a different path. You appear to have already created part of the code so I assume you are intimately familiar with its workings. If you are in addition able to divide the work into a set of specific tasks that have specific rather than broad knowledge requirements, and that are decoupled by defining clear rules as to how the developed components will work together (interface), and if in addition you are prepared to accept the delays in schedule that will inevitably happen when dealing with remote workers of uncertain skill and working to specifications that will need extensive revision because they are for something completely new ... then I have seen firsthand that you can succeed. The key is being able to offload the grunt work and isolate the grunts from having to contribute inspiration.
Having said all that ... why would one develop a search engine? Aren&#039;t there enough open source search engines on the market?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that making use of remote resources in this case is difficult, but I don&#8217;t agree that it is folly. Just as there is risk there is also opportunity in walking a different path. You appear to have already created part of the code so I assume you are intimately familiar with its workings. If you are in addition able to divide the work into a set of specific tasks that have specific rather than broad knowledge requirements, and that are decoupled by defining clear rules as to how the developed components will work together (interface), and if in addition you are prepared to accept the delays in schedule that will inevitably happen when dealing with remote workers of uncertain skill and working to specifications that will need extensive revision because they are for something completely new &#8230; then I have seen firsthand that you can succeed. The key is being able to offload the grunt work and isolate the grunts from having to contribute inspiration.<br />
Having said all that &#8230; why would one develop a search engine? Aren&#8217;t there enough open source search engines on the market?</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard Hemingway</title>
		<link>http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/comment-page-1#comment-22742</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard Hemingway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 01:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/#comment-22742</guid>
		<description>Trying to build a search engine on a limited budget is a folly. Going offshore will only compound your problems if you do not have the tech knowledge or do not have someone with advanced programming skills inhouse who does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trying to build a search engine on a limited budget is a folly. Going offshore will only compound your problems if you do not have the tech knowledge or do not have someone with advanced programming skills inhouse who does.</p>
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		<title>By: alec</title>
		<link>http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/comment-page-1#comment-22741</link>
		<dc:creator>alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/#comment-22741</guid>
		<description>Hi Shemp,

I think trying to build a search engine with external coders is madness.

If you have some budget (it sounds like you do), you&#039;d do better to find someone local and gifted to work with you, preferably at least part time in the same space.

Overall, building a search engine is a monumental task. Make sure you have your specs and expectations well in order before you start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Shemp,</p>
<p>I think trying to build a search engine with external coders is madness.</p>
<p>If you have some budget (it sounds like you do), you&#8217;d do better to find someone local and gifted to work with you, preferably at least part time in the same space.</p>
<p>Overall, building a search engine is a monumental task. Make sure you have your specs and expectations well in order before you start.</p>
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		<title>By: Shemp</title>
		<link>http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/comment-page-1#comment-22739</link>
		<dc:creator>Shemp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 01:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/#comment-22739</guid>
		<description>Im glad I read your posting as I was just about to use ODesk because it looked to good to be true. I need someone with Advanced PHP/Zend programming skills to finish up a search engine I have created. There were at least 5 quality looking programmers from Russia/Belgium etc that I was going to try out. But now Im thinking twice b4 I even go that route. Any suggestions would be great.
P.S. I am a graphic designer trying to develop a search engine. I have a very limited budget so oDesk looked great to me. I can only pay $15-$25 per hour until I get funding.
Thanks for your time...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im glad I read your posting as I was just about to use ODesk because it looked to good to be true. I need someone with Advanced PHP/Zend programming skills to finish up a search engine I have created. There were at least 5 quality looking programmers from Russia/Belgium etc that I was going to try out. But now Im thinking twice b4 I even go that route. Any suggestions would be great.<br />
P.S. I am a graphic designer trying to develop a search engine. I have a very limited budget so oDesk looked great to me. I can only pay $15-$25 per hour until I get funding.<br />
Thanks for your time&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: alec</title>
		<link>http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/comment-page-1#comment-22714</link>
		<dc:creator>alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 12:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/#comment-22714</guid>
		<description>Hello Andy,

Thanks for the kind words. But I think the blended model already exists. It&#039;s called hiring a software house. It&#039;s more expensive but a hell of a lot more reliable.

That&#039;s what we do. Provide integrated solutions and do custom coding for some fairly large applications.

We have our book filled for at least three months in advance. The issue is more with finding talented and reliable developers to add to our team.

We will look at new projects, but we pick and choose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Andy,</p>
<p>Thanks for the kind words. But I think the blended model already exists. It&#8217;s called hiring a software house. It&#8217;s more expensive but a hell of a lot more reliable.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what we do. Provide integrated solutions and do custom coding for some fairly large applications.</p>
<p>We have our book filled for at least three months in advance. The issue is more with finding talented and reliable developers to add to our team.</p>
<p>We will look at new projects, but we pick and choose.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/comment-page-1#comment-22713</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/#comment-22713</guid>
		<description>Alec,

I congratulate you on the lively discussion that you&#039;ve generated on your post and thank you for your informative replies. I completely agree on the benefits which you pointed out regarding the instant feedback that you receive from face to face development work. Because of the short-comings of off-shoring these benefits are a tremendous opportunity for some company in the future. Perhaps a blended offshore/face to face model will dramatically change the development landscape one day. Such blended teams do exist and have worked but I don&#039;t believe that even any big consulting firms have figured out a way to do so predictably. It&#039;s a problem that I&#039;ve been trying to crack for years. I still salivate over the market opportunity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alec,</p>
<p>I congratulate you on the lively discussion that you&#8217;ve generated on your post and thank you for your informative replies. I completely agree on the benefits which you pointed out regarding the instant feedback that you receive from face to face development work. Because of the short-comings of off-shoring these benefits are a tremendous opportunity for some company in the future. Perhaps a blended offshore/face to face model will dramatically change the development landscape one day. Such blended teams do exist and have worked but I don&#8217;t believe that even any big consulting firms have figured out a way to do so predictably. It&#8217;s a problem that I&#8217;ve been trying to crack for years. I still salivate over the market opportunity.</p>
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		<title>By: alec</title>
		<link>http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/comment-page-1#comment-22712</link>
		<dc:creator>alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/#comment-22712</guid>
		<description>Hello Andy,

As an IT manager you are the ideal user of oDesk.

A big issue with outsourcing is that the person doing the outsourcing is not at all prepared to manage IT projects.

Unfortunately, these sites seek to cater to the widest possible audience. Which leads to a lot of broken sites and software. If someone does not have a strong project management or technical background s/he should find a project manager first and then think about outsourcing.

We&#039;ve decided not to outsource and instead to build the resources in-house. Although we are good at managing these projects, there&#039;s nothing like getting together in the same space and looking and pointing at a monitor together.

While nominally more expensive, the savings in time and increase in quality more than make up for the expense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Andy,</p>
<p>As an IT manager you are the ideal user of oDesk.</p>
<p>A big issue with outsourcing is that the person doing the outsourcing is not at all prepared to manage IT projects.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, these sites seek to cater to the widest possible audience. Which leads to a lot of broken sites and software. If someone does not have a strong project management or technical background s/he should find a project manager first and then think about outsourcing.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve decided not to outsource and instead to build the resources in-house. Although we are good at managing these projects, there&#8217;s nothing like getting together in the same space and looking and pointing at a monitor together.</p>
<p>While nominally more expensive, the savings in time and increase in quality more than make up for the expense.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/comment-page-1#comment-22710</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://foliovision.com/2007/02/20/odesk-review/#comment-22710</guid>
		<description>I agree with what you are saying to a large extent. There are plenty of open source apps and free plugins that will get you most of the way you want to get for any development you need to do. However the &quot;last mile&quot; often requires specialist skills, and sometimes involves repetitive grunt work that I for one am ill equipped to do efficiently.

As a professional IT manager from the experience of seeing so many people asking for completely unnecessary and extraneous skill sets when hiring, I know that it takes some skill to clarify the precise problem that needs to be solved, identify the skills required to complete that job, and assess whether the candidate has the required skills. However if you CAN narrow the scope of the problem you can certainly get good results out of oDesk or any other developers.

I would go so far as to say that any business owner thinking of spending lots of time themselves working on a solution they could outsource should seriously assess the worth of their time and consider outsourcing. Perhaps the inability to dissect problems and delegate work is a business growth limiting issue. Some startups and small businesses certainly have more time than money, but that is not always true. I believe Companies like oDesk are a great asset. Whether it is oDesk or some other upstart that does it better and eventually puts oDesk out of business, such companies truly have a fantastic future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with what you are saying to a large extent. There are plenty of open source apps and free plugins that will get you most of the way you want to get for any development you need to do. However the &#8220;last mile&#8221; often requires specialist skills, and sometimes involves repetitive grunt work that I for one am ill equipped to do efficiently.</p>
<p>As a professional IT manager from the experience of seeing so many people asking for completely unnecessary and extraneous skill sets when hiring, I know that it takes some skill to clarify the precise problem that needs to be solved, identify the skills required to complete that job, and assess whether the candidate has the required skills. However if you CAN narrow the scope of the problem you can certainly get good results out of oDesk or any other developers.</p>
<p>I would go so far as to say that any business owner thinking of spending lots of time themselves working on a solution they could outsource should seriously assess the worth of their time and consider outsourcing. Perhaps the inability to dissect problems and delegate work is a business growth limiting issue. Some startups and small businesses certainly have more time than money, but that is not always true. I believe Companies like oDesk are a great asset. Whether it is oDesk or some other upstart that does it better and eventually puts oDesk out of business, such companies truly have a fantastic future.</p>
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